Taking Back Teaching: S2E3 Melissa A. Understanding Trauma in Education

Can understanding trauma truly transform how we educate? Join us on “Taught, the Podcast,” where we unravel the complexities of trauma with the insightful Melissa Anthony, a licensed counselor specializing in trauma and grief. Melissa dives into the nuanced differences between big T and little T traumas, offering relatable examples like car crashes and feelings of exclusion. This episode shines a spotlight on how educators can recognize and address trauma symptoms not just in their students, but within themselves, especially in the face of both direct and secondary trauma.

Resources:

Teaching with Trauma by Emily Donahoe (Edutopia) https://www.edutopia.org/article/teaching-trauma/

NEA News: I didn’t know it had a name by Tim Walker https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/i-didnt-know-it-had-name-secondary-traumatic-stress-and-educators

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk
https://a.co/d/bHjgFuW

Education Support UK Dealing with Stress and Trauma https://www.educationsupport.org.uk/resources/for-individuals/guides/dealing-with-stress-and-trauma-for-staff-in-education-settings/

The Trauma Transition for Students to Teachers By Karen Gross (ASCD)
https://ascd.org/el/articles/the-trauma-transmission-from-students-to-teachers

Better Days Counseling and Consultation; Melissa J. Anthony, MA LPC
https://www.mibetterdays.com/

Psychology Today: Find a Therapist
https://www.psychologytoday.com/

Transcript

Understanding Trauma in Education

Speaker 1 0:05

It's like the light switch analogy . When you're a child , we'll say you're growing up in an environment that's very chaotic , or maybe there's people in that environment that aren't safe . Every time you're in a situation where you just fear your safety , it's like we're triggering this light switch , we're turning on a light switch , we're turning on a light switch , and the more that light switch gets turned on over the duration of our life , the more easy it is to trigger right . So another analogy I like to think of with people is imagine your life as a strand of Christmas tree lights and on this strand represents different sized bulbs of just rotten things that may have happened to you over the course of your life . When something happens today that even remotely reminds you of the past , it's as if somebody's walking up and plugging on that entire strand of light . Everything is lighting up .

Speaker 2 1:10

A few years ago , I started writing a fictitious story based on my time as an educator . It is called Taught , and the story was partially inspired out of anger and frustration fueled by burnout . Okay , actually , it was more than partially inspired by anger and frustration . But taught has also become a vehicle for me to tell what I thought at the time and in some ways continue to think was and is the real story of teaching . I now realize that my perspective is not everyone's perspective , but there are some pieces of taught that resonated with many educators perspective , but there are some pieces of taught that resonated with many educators . This podcast is an extension of that story and I , a former teacher , will interview other educators , asking them to share how they really feel about the current state of education . Why are so many teachers burnout ? Why are so many like me leaving the field ? We likely won't solve any problems or come up with any solutions , but we can create a community of voices that maybe begin the conversation around how educators can take back teaching . I'm Melissa LaFleur . Welcome to Taught , the podcast . I like to be educated , but I'm so frustrated .

Speaker 2 2:28

Hey , everybody , I am pleased to welcome my good friend , melissa Anthony , back today , if this is your first time hearing Melissa , let me share a few things about her . Melissa Anthony is a licensed counselor who specializes in trauma and grief , along with the depression and anxiety that often follow . Melissa was the trauma program coordinator for one of the largest psychiatric hospitals in Michigan . Additionally , she has experience working with folks in crisis with imminent risks , such as suicidal ideation , homicidal ideation and psychosis . These days she has a private practice and works abroad , in Portugal , with her husband and two children , and today Melissa is here to chat with me about a subject that is her specialization and really important for educators as we begin another school year and yes , I'm talking about trauma . Melissa , thanks for coming back and helping us unpack this .

Speaker 1 3:31

Thanks for having me , Melissa . You know I genuinely appreciate you and what you're doing . I've dedicated my professional life to trauma . It's something I feel pretty passionate about . I have teachers in my family , I have teachers on my caseload . I just I have a real heart for this population , so I've been looking forward to this Me too .

Speaker 2 3:54

Well , I'd like to start out by actually , if you don't mind , just defining what actually constitutes us to use the trauma label , because at the end of the episodes when I'm interviewing teachers , I usually ask whoever I'm interviewing , you know , tell us about when you've experienced either secondary or firsthand trauma due to being an educator , and I've noticed that a lot of people shy away from identifying that they themselves have experienced something that they would label as trauma . So can you give us an idea of when we should use this label and maybe when we shouldn't ? Oh , I love this .

Speaker 1 4:33

It's a great question . I think a lot of people when they think like trauma and PTSD , they think you know huge , horrible , fiery crashes and veterans and all of this and that's part of it . But really trauma is symptoms . Ptsd is symptoms and it's really based on perception . So just because something bad may have happened to you , if you don't have the symptoms , we wouldn't necessarily label it as like PTSD , but you could still perceive it as trauma .

Speaker 1 5:05

An example I use is if person A and person B get into a car crash . Person A steps out of the car and goes I got to get a rental car , I got to go to my job , I got to get back to work . It doesn't really faze them after the event has occurred . Whereas person B gets out of the car and goes I'm never driving again . Whereas person B gets out of the car and goes I'm never driving again . So it really has a lot to do with just perception and just knowing there is a difference between big T traumas and little T traumas . You know a trauma could be something as small as well . You know small right In quotes , as I don't feel like I'm a part of the culture of my school or I didn't make the baseball team right , like those could be little T traumas , but still it hurts . So I think perception and I think symptoms when I think trauma . If you're struggling , there's something possibly traumatic behind it .

Speaker 2 6:02

Yeah , you know , as you say , that it makes me think , and you used a really good example . Perhaps , if someone is in a situation where they are not being accepted by their school community and how that might be a little T trauma , but the symptoms going to be there , you're still going to get that catch in your chest every time you have to go to an in-service , which is what a lot of teachers are doing right now because they're getting ready to go back to school . And who are you going to sit with ? And what if they call me and I make a fool out of myself ? You know , and nobody likes me already . So , as opposed to you know somebody comes in and brings a gun into the school or something which would be beautiful examples .

Speaker 2 6:47

Such a big one .

Speaker 1 6:49

Yeah , beautiful examples and all of it's valid , because really it's . It's about what's going on internally with the . We don't get to the person on fire dictates what's going on internally . We don't look at a situation and say , oh , that's traumatic or oh , that's not , that's not our call to make .

Speaker 2 7:08

I really like that as a baseline there and I love what you just said . The person that is experiencing it gets to decide when it's trauma , okay , okay .

Speaker 2 7:19

So when I was researching for this , I found an article . It's an Edutopia article , which is a pretty popular teacher website that we use for all kinds of things , but the article was written by Emily Donahue back in 2018 . And , incidentally , emily is a freelance journalist , but she also is a I think she might still be a current teacher . So I got in touch with her and she gave me permission to read part of her article and I felt like it was really a good jumping off point for this discussion . So I'm going to start with a portion where she is discussing some points that were in the book the Body Keeps the Score , and that book is by Bessel van der Kolk and I'll put those links to Emily's article and the . And that book is by Bessel van der Kolk and I'll put those links to Emily's article and the link to that book . So she's talking about how points and how the things from the book , how they affect classroom educators directly .

Speaker 2 8:21

So teaching can be an especially fraught profession for people who struggle with emotional regulation . Even traumatized patients who are making real contributions in teaching expend a lot more energy on the everyday tasks of living than do ordinary mortals , writes Bessel van der Kolk in the Body Keeps the Score . Russell van der Kolk in the Body Keeps the Score . Van der Kolk explains that many people who have experienced trauma develop a faulty alarm system that's easily triggered by minor events . For instance , someone who's been through trauma may read an expression of mild irritation as anger or interpret constructive criticism as a threat . Moreover , once their fear response is activated , it can take longer and be more difficult to calm down . Though , don't take things personally is common and valuable classroom management advice . Even teachers who aren't facing their own demons sometimes struggle with it . But for teachers who are wired for hypervigilance , not taking things personally can feel almost impossible . They marvel at their calm , collected colleagues whose voices never seem to quiver with irritation or anxiety , who seem easily able to stay in control . What are your thoughts on this ?

Speaker 1 9:43

Great book selection . I mean , this is the book that a lot of trauma therapists know and they know pretty well , right ?

Speaker 1 9:52

It is a very clinical and heavy read , but it explains a lot about what's going on with our systems . Bessel mentioned an easily triggered nervous system . Yes , you know . To just take this , this concept , and break it down a little more tangible , it's like a light switch analogy . When you're a child , we'll say , and you're growing up in an environment that's very chaotic , or maybe there's people in that environment that aren't safe . Every time you're in a situation where you just fear your safety , it's like we're , we're triggering this light switch , we're turning on a light switch , we're turning on a light switch and the more that light switch gets turned on over the duration of our life , the more easy it is to trigger right ?

Speaker 1 10:36

So another analogy I like to think of with people is imagine your life as a strand of Christmas tree lights and on this strand represents different sized bulbs of just rotten things that may have happened to you over the course of your life . When something happens today that even remotely reminds you of the past , it's as if somebody's walking up and plugging on that entire strand of lights . Everything is lighting up . For example , if you had a mom that was very critical , we'll say , and the only way to kind of survive her was to just shut down , shut down , shut down . And then here you are going about your life and we have a parent of the classroom who's overly critical . Those Christmas lights are going to light right up . Your first initial response is going to be I'm going to shut down , because this is what we've done . So noticing within yourself those trauma responses and we'll get into that later , I think is going to be very , very helpful .

Speaker 2 11:39

Yeah , I can see that and I think that even that little passage alludes to what you said . I can see that and I think that even that little passage alludes to what you said . You know that the what we perceive as trauma is different for each of us and when it's engaged , you you just go right into that space , even if you don't necessarily want to , and it can look like everybody else has got it figured out , look like everybody else has got it figured out . So you know , I'm always fascinated to hear this from a professional's perspective too . I'm not always , I don't think .

Speaker 2 12:13

When I was a classroom teacher , I always knew when my trauma response had been engaged , until I was well into it . You know , I know that field trips this is going to sound ridiculous , but field trips were so hard for me I dreaded them for days and there was something about being responsible for everyone's children outside this little room where I could control everything . That just really set me off . So just minor things . I mean , I was on edge . I wouldn't sleep , even after the field trip was over . I couldn't come down from it . I was not a fun teacher to have on your field trip with you and I think it engaged some things that had happened in my past where I had to caretake as a child my brother and sister . Look how you connected the dots .

Speaker 1 13:10

That was beautiful . That's your Christmas lights . Like . The past is present , beautiful insight .

Speaker 2 13:16

So how could I have ? I mean , I can do that now because I'm in a calm state , right ? So how do we know when our own trauma has been engaged ? That's a beautiful question .

Speaker 1 13:29

You know , I think people they instantly , when they have these trauma responses , a lot of times they think what's wrong with me ? You ?

Speaker 2 13:36

know this is my fault .

Speaker 1 13:37

I'm weird , I'm broken , I'm damaged . I'm crazy . They just go into this space when really to understand people , both yourself and kids in the classroom , parents , coworkers , all of this to understand when people's nervous systems are clicked on . I think most of us at this point have heard about fight , flight , freeze and fawn .

Speaker 2 14:00

Well , what does ?

Speaker 1 14:00

this actually look like .

Speaker 2 14:02

Oh wait just a minute . Wait just a minute . I've never heard of fawn . I've heard fight , flight and freeze , I've never heard of fawn . Can you talk a little bit about that ?

Speaker 1 14:12

Absolutely .

Managing Triggers and Coping Skills

Speaker 1 14:13

Let me tell you , when your nervous system is clicked on , you're either going to notice an irritation or an anger Okay , that's fight . You're going to notice avoidance I can't , I won't , no , thank you , that's flight . You're going to notice , maybe , shutting down , that's freezing , that's submitting , that's . Or you're going to notice fun people pleasing whatever you want , whatever you need Okay . This is when other people's needs , wants , desires are more prominent than your own .

Speaker 1 14:46

And the theory on this is , you know , people who may have grown up in environments with very difficult individuals . It's like , okay , whatever you want , whatever you say , and then you won't humiliate me , disrespect me , minimize me , harm me , abuse me , gaslight me . So yeah , I mean fun and a lot of people . It looks like people-pleasing yeah .

Speaker 2 15:07

I had never heard that . It makes complete sense , though . I'm sorry I interrupted you , but I had never heard fawn .

Speaker 1 15:13

Not at all . I mean , it makes sense . And just going to your analogy or your moments of field trips , that's the great unknown . Anxiety and unknown that's interchangeable . So there's this thought of what's going to happen . And'm responsible for these kids and I'm out of this uncontrolled environment . It makes sense to me . So , again , if we're noticing being angry , avoidant , shutting down or people pleasing , chances are that nervous system is clicked on in that moment yeah .

Speaker 2 15:46

Yeah . Well , I think that mine was clicked on a lot , but I just didn't always , you know , and just being honest here . I thought it was the kids so I blamed it on them . It was like man , they were just outrageous today . Well , they were just normal kids on a field trip . Most of the time , it was me that was having the issue .

Speaker 1 16:12

So it happens to the best of us , girl .

Speaker 2 16:15

Okay .

Speaker 1 16:16

Yeah so .

Speaker 2 16:17

I'm on the field trip and let's just pretend , cause I'm no longer teaching , thank goodness . But some of you out there are going to go on field trips this year , or your own things are going to come up , so we'll go use mine , though I'm on a field trip . What are some things that I could actually do in the moment , once I'm triggered ?

Speaker 1 16:40

It's beautiful . First and foremost , the answer , and a lot of people probably won't like this , but the answer is not to avoid the triggers . If you called into work that day and said , cough , cough , I'm sick , I can't do this , I'm not going into this field trip , in the moment you would find peace . You would go back to bed , maybe watch some good TV , let another teacher deal with this . But and you , as both a mother and a teacher , can probably understand this analogy I'm going to ask you a question , melissa , are you ?

Speaker 2 17:10

ready .

Speaker 1 17:11

I'm going to ask you a question , melissa , are you ready ? I'm ready . Let's set the tone . You're at the store with your child and your child goes I want a toy no . And just throws an ever loving tantrum in the middle of the supermarket , do you ? Buy that kid the toy .

Speaker 2 17:28

No .

Speaker 1 17:28

No , no , because if you do , you feed that beautiful little monster , you tell that child like if you scream and shout and holler , you will get what you want . And unfortunately , with anxiety and triggers it's pretty similar the more you avoid , the bigger they become . So you face it head on . What are things you can do ? Well , off the top of my head , I would say first , noticing in your body . Get to know your body , notice when you're triggered , notice what it feels like , act accordingly . Right , you can in the moment say okay , am I unsafe or I or am I uncomfortable ? This is a good reality check . Am I unsafe in this moment or am I uncomfortable ? This is a good reality check . Am I unsafe in this moment or am I uncomfortable ?

Speaker 1 18:14

You then can say , okay , well , I'm uncomfortable , is this a good uncomfortable or a bad uncomfortable ? What I mean by good uncomfortable versus bad uncomfortable ? Sometimes you can turn your tormentors to teachers , meaning , let's say , your entire life you struggled with . We'll use people pleasing , we'll use that analogy where I find myself just giving and serving and doing more and more and more and more . Well , you're going to find yourself in a lot of those situations and you're going to be tormented in a lot of situations until we find the tools , the outlet , the help we need where we say , okay , this time I'm not , this time I'm going to set the boundary . This time I'm going to put myself first . This time , this time , this time , and you learn from these moments , you learn you tell yourself you know , I've been on other field trips .

Speaker 1 19:10

They turn out fine , they're always fine . I might have been a caregiver when I was a child , but this ain't that , this ain't that . I'm grown . Now I have power . Now you can give yourself other reality checks of like will this matter in a week from now , a day from now , a month from now , in a week from now , a day from now , a month from now . And you know , if your triggers involve , like other people , you can remember some people . I heard the best quote the other day . I loved it . Some people are eagerly offended . Eagerly offended . Sometimes you are going to have individuals where you can handle everything perfectly and beautifully and they will still come at you offended . So maybe , visualizing if we have a bunch of children that are just screaming and yelling and hooting and hollering , maybe visualize them like little bandages above their head , like , ok , it's not me , it's these kids , these kids are wounded right now , or just something silly or goofy , just to detach .

Speaker 1 20:14

detach from the situation you are here , you are okay , you are safe in this moment . Really . So a good old fashioned reality check and you know not to get too far down this rabbit hole I can tell you just about every coping skill you're ever going to hear from a therapist is going to go down one of three tracks In those moments . You're either going to get out of your head . You're either going to fight against or you're going to radically accept . I'm going to feel triggered and hurt , right , and that can look like a plethora of different coping skills and things to try . So there's options . There are , and it's going to be uncomfortable until it isn't .

Speaker 2 20:54

Well , it's interesting that you're saying all of this because I'm I'm trying to take myself back , because for sure I'm , and I know you've told me this before . As my friend you have said , nobody likes what we are , but I'm a fight and it's not my favorite because it is very tense . I mean I , but I never until now talking about this , I never . I mean I would go home with the tight shoulders and the headache and whatever after a field trip . But I never associated that with a trauma response and getting into that fight phase for myself .

Speaker 2 21:32

And then I am thinking I had another colleague with me on a field trip once and it was a game changer for me , and he said I said I just hate field trips for all these reasons . And he said , well gosh , you're not God . I mean , these are creatures and they have their own minds and you're not going to be able to stop them from doing everything that they're going to do . I don't look at it that way . I set down the rules . If somebody breaks a rule or if somebody , if some weird something happens , I don't take that on as my fault .

Speaker 1 22:13

And I was like whoa .

Speaker 2 22:15

I mean , it had never occurred to me to look at it from that lens . And it forever changed field trips for me and and I thought what was in that article ? I thought , well , that's easy for him to say , but it was easy for me to remember him saying the next time I was on the field trip .

Speaker 1 22:37

So although beautiful example of track two , right like getting out of your head would look like I don't know , counting the stars or thinking about colors , but what he did there was track two .

Speaker 2 22:50

I'm fighting against this fear .

Speaker 1 22:51

I'm just going to be real and blunt with myself and it does . It kind of helps shrink that .

Speaker 2 22:55

I do enjoy , you know , thinking of the children in silly ways , though that appeals to me as well . I am visual .

Speaker 1 23:05

Okay , like it's not me , it's these kids .

Speaker 2 23:10

Picture them with little devil horns . Like what can I do about that ?

Speaker 1 23:13

Whatever makes you happy , okay .

Speaker 2 23:17

So moving forward . So hopefully I'm just going to kind of cover what I think we have talked about . So for anyone listening , when we are triggered , we know that we are triggered by first listening to ourselves feeling whatever physically that we're feeling , and then kind of trying to stop and say , well , I notice I've got a headache , I've got some shoulder tension , I'm feeling like everything's a really big deal now , and then kind of saying , am I getting into this freeze , fight , flight or fawn stage ? And if you find yourself there , then trying to come up with a way to get yourself to either reframe the situation or get out of your head so that you can look at it a little bit differently and start making yourself feel safe again .

Speaker 1 24:17

That was a beautiful Wow . That was . That was damn

Exploring Trauma Responses and Coping

Speaker 1 24:21

good . Yes , because ultimately , if your Christmas lights are on , nobody's responsible for unplugging them but you .

Speaker 2 24:29

And I think we all want to . I think we all want to unplug them when we find out that they're on . It's like , man , this is summertime , what are those things going on ? It's not Christmas and for what it's worth .

Speaker 1 24:43

My fighters always want to be fighters . My freezers always want to be fighters . It's one of those . The grass is always greener on the other side . But the beautiful thing is when you notice . When you start noticing , your nervous system is on . You can sit there and say okay , I feel it . I feel that rage .

Speaker 2 25:02

You know when I , when my nervous system is on .

Speaker 1 25:04

it feels like a little burning rage in the middle of my chest and I go oh yeah okay , it's on . And I've gotten to the point where I can not always now look I'm not walking on water over here but a lot of the times I can notice this feeling and I can say , okay , in this situation can .

Speaker 2 25:21

I fight this person ?

Speaker 1 25:24

Should I avoid this person ? Should I just shut down and kind of wait for this to be done , or should I just kiss this person's ass to get through the moment ? These are not bad things , like , sometimes your body requires you to do certain behaviors just to survive the moment , and that's okay . You don't always have to be a fighter . You can really sit and just think okay , I want to fight , but I'm going to choose not to . I'm going to choose to just avoid this situation . And , wow , talk about getting to know yourself . Talk about , like self-actualization .

Speaker 2 25:57

But you know , that is very powerful for educators because you have a parent come in and they are engaging you and it's putting you in that space . I mean there are certain things you can't do and situations that you have to do , things that maybe aren't going to come naturally for you , of the options and how they can be helpful and and analyzing them before you just kind of let that little nervous system Christmas light thing take over , absolutely , absolutely .

Speaker 1 26:40

And you know , with the kiddos , you know I was kind of joking like , just picture them with bandages around their heads and they're broken . And you know , I know that's not everybody's jam with kids . Kids are lovely and they're beautiful and a lot of times they're the product of their environment . But you can absolutely look at parents as like , okay , this person hurt people , hurt people . There is a reason why they are eagerly offended . There's a reason why they're coming at me so angry and so upset and it is not about you .

Speaker 1 27:09

They're going through a pattern that they have done before you , that they will do after you , but in that moment you just happen to be writing that pattern of theirs with them . So even that kind of helps just really see it for what it is . It's not always about you and that helps . It helps it helps to personalize it .

Speaker 2 27:26

Yeah , I can see that and you know I'm sitting here thinking we're , this is great stuff and I wish that I had I had listened to our podcast before I was teaching one school year . But I also know this about me I forget things pretty easily and is there ? I mean , is this like you know , if you supposedly I wouldn't know because I don't do this , but like if you exercise certain parts of your body you can prevent injury later ? Is there like any methodology that we can do around having our trauma response triggered and practice things we can practice to kind of set ourselves up for success ? Oh , I love that .

Speaker 1 28:13

Yes , sometimes it's just a good old-fashioned reframe . So let's say , hypothetically , I get really angry and I just want to yell at people . I just want to yell at people .

Speaker 1 28:24

And then here comes this parent into my classroom and boy , are they hot ? Right , they're coming in hot . I can look at this as as okay , this is going to be a challenge . Like I , I'm up for the challenge . I am not going to let this person get the best of me . I'm going to thrive in spite of them . So , instead of looking at it as oh no , oh no , oh no , we're looking at it as I'm a track star and I'm going to jump this hurdle and I'm going to survive this .

Speaker 1 28:50

And the more that you can practice , that it's just , it's muscle memory . It will grow , just like the body . It really truly will . Other things you can do to just cope , protect yourself in those moments and beyond get yourself some damn good therapy . Therapists are like any other profession . You've got your good , your bad and your eh . Like , trust me , like really , and I think a lot of teachers can relate in this field , Sometimes you have really great rockstar teachers and then other teachers where it's like , oh my goodness , how'd they get this job ? And that's okay , it's like any profession . So find yourself a damn good therapist . It's critical . It's crucial , especially if you're struggling . I mean , they're worth their weight in gold .

Speaker 2 29:38

It's interesting that you say this because , as you say , with teachers , I always tell families , because I do a little side things where I help families now to who are struggling within the school system , and I always say not every teacher is a good fit for every student and not every student is a good fit for every teacher .

Speaker 2 29:57

So I'm guessing it's the same with therapists , because I have had friends that are like , oh , I went to this fabulous person , blah blah , and another friend's like really , I did not have that experience because it just wasn't a good fit .

Speaker 1 30:09

Oh , beautiful point . Sometimes they can be a great therapist . They're just not a great therapist for you and that's okay . Some people really like the oh my goodness , tell me about your feelings and just lovey , snuggly . I'm more of like I'm . I like the no BS approach and how the hardened , like what the F is wrong with you kind of therapist . I don't think there's a right or wrong , I don't . I would say other things too , to know You're human . First right Teachers . My heart goes out to teachers . Your entire being is more than your professional identity . You're allowed your boundaries . Boundaries are the coat of armor that protects you from this world . Hey , can you bake a thousand muffins for the bake sale ? No , Look at that . Just protected your Saturday night , Isn't that beautiful ? Boundaries are what protect you . Also , if you are a fighter like Melissa and I , change your relationship with your anger . Really , anger isn't a bad thing . What ?

Speaker 1 31:13

we do with it sometimes as humans is not great , but really the emotion itself tells us one an injustice has occurred . It's the part of yourself that loves you deeper than any other part , because it is the part that wants to fight for you . This is the part that wants to protect you If somebody hurts you or disrespects you . That is the part that comes up and says Whoa , that wasn't fair , I deserved better . That's amazing . Oh yes , anger is not bad . If you're feeling anger , chances are there's an injustice occurring , and validate that . I mean also check is this perception or is this reality ? That's a thing too . But if anger is hitting , there's probably a reason for it , and I noticed a lot of people in session . They'll feel anger and they'll say what's wrong with me , I shouldn't do this , I shouldn't feel this way , oh my goodness . Well , have you ever asked why it makes sense ? It makes sense If we're looking at it from an injustice perspective . Anger loves you . Intention versus presentation Anger loves you .

Speaker 2 32:17

I'm going to keep that . I'm going to keep that for sure , melissa . This is it's . You know , I'm going to go on a little bird walk here , which is you ? Are my only therapist that people reached out to me after the fact and said and I've had a few therapists on here , yeah , and , and they're all wonderful .

Speaker 1 32:39

Oh , they're amazing . I love it .

Speaker 2 32:40

They are I mean you've met them right , but but you are the only one that people reached out to me and said she spoke to me .

Speaker 2 32:49

She spoke to me Stop , stop stop , and I do think it is that no-nonsense approach Although I mean , I'm a no-nonsense person and I've actually hurt my friend's feelings before with your friend therapy , right when you're like giving advice that you shouldn't be . So I do think that everybody needs to find their own fit , but you definitely struck a chord with . I can think of at least four people that reached out to me and were like I really appreciated what she said .

Speaker 1 33:20

Oh man well thanks for that , melissa . That's very sweet . I really appreciated what she said . Oh man , well , thanks for that , melissa . That's very sweet . I really appreciate that . Different strokes , different folks . I learned a long time ago to just be myself right wrong or indifferent , because whatever little light I'm shining into this world , there seems to be a group that respond to it and respond to their little lights . So , thanks a lot . That was really kind of . Yeah , am I turning red ? I feel like I'm blushing .

Speaker 2 33:46

You are not turning red , all right . So , as we wrap up , what would you like to leave our listeners with ?

Speaker 1 33:55

Boy in the world of trauma . I think I told you when we were talking about this this is a topic you could hand me a microphone and I would speak like three hours on because I love this topic . But I think the best way to serve this audience , I would say knowledge is power . Know thyself Okay , know thyself .

Recognizing and Healing Trauma Responses

Speaker 1 34:19

As a trauma counselor , I think many people feel as if they're broken or weird or damaged , but they're not Due to life experiences grief , childhood abuse , neglect , broken relationships , et cetera . People adapt to the best way . They know how and when people think trauma , they think flashbacks , intrusive memories , nightmares . That's absolutely a thing for some , but for many . Here's what common trauma responses look like . These are what I'm seeing in session . So if any of this resonates with you , maybe sit back and ask , okay , where did this come from ? And if you don't know , float back to the first time you felt that way . Usually there's going to be a little memory attached there .

Speaker 1 35:08

So what I see in session , I see either overly weak or overly rigid when it comes to anything to do with power , control or boundaries . I see people pleasing anger boundaries . I see people pleasing anger , numbing , avoidance , feeling shut down , feeling unmotivated . Perfectionism is a big one because I have to do everything perfect by the book or else I'll get made fun of , humiliated , mocked , teased . It's got to be perfect . This usually stems from like overly critical people in your world's see , what else do ? I see feeling as if you can't be honest or transparent or assertive with yourself or others , feeling detached , zoning out , overly jumpy , anxious , panicky . I see addiction , including workaholics , anything to distract , you know , work , work , work , work , work , work , work , work .

Speaker 1 36:04

But I would say , in my experience as a trauma therapist , I think the number one symptom of trauma is self-hatred , or that loud inner critic . You were not born in this world hating yourself , you weren't . So maybe take a pause and instead of believing these feelings as fact , you get curious about it , start asking where did it come from ? Because self-hatred is a defense , it's a defense mechanism for trauma . So , again , self-hatred is a defense mechanism for trauma If we're looking at people who may have been abused as children or in painful relationships or situations they couldn't escape . You can't always run or fight , you can't always tell others what's happening , so you shut down , you wait for it to pass . This is often the birth of self-hatred , because self-hatred keeps us shut down , quiet , invisible , and it may have served a purpose at one point in your life , but if you are no longer being traumatized , then it is no longer serving you right .

Speaker 1 37:09

And if this is resonating with any of the listeners , hear my words . You are allowed to outgrow and evolve from your relationship with your self-hatred . You are not your self-hatred . This is a part of you and it's okay if you don't have the answers yet on how to do that , but there are websites like psychologytodaycom . Again , psychologytodaycom . They can help you match with good therapists in your area for free . You can reach out to me . We'll put my website on Melissa's page , if that's okay with you , melissa , it's already on there actually every week , We'll put Psychology Today up too , and I'll help get you connected .

Speaker 1 37:51

It may not be me , but I can help find someone for you . The point is don't stop until you find your champion . A damn good therapist is worth its weight in gold period . That's it .

Speaker 2 38:03

That's my message for people I think it's a really good one , especially as we head into the school year , because I mean so I'm gonna bring it together with the burnout . I think this is a crucial piece of burnout , which is that shutdown which is I can't get my needs met , so you become apathetic why even try ? And there's that trauma response happening at the same time because you just don't know how to turn the Christmas lights off . They're on all the time and you're desensitized to them . So , as we go into a school year , I think that this is such a really good message for everyone to hear . And this is specifically about triggering your own past traumas . I know you agreed to do a second episode with me where we're going to go through some of the strategies . I'm sure are going to be the same . But what happens when you are in a traumatic situation at school and you absorb some of that secondary trauma ? And I'm going to be really interested to hear what you have to say about that . But we'll save it .

Speaker 1 39:18

I love it . I'll try and bring fresh material for that episode . Like I said , I can go on and on and on about trauma , because I have a heart for people and if I have a nickel for someone who is really just having trauma responses and thinking that they were some sort of deviant person , y'all stop , just stop Love each other . There's probably a reason .

Speaker 2 39:41

Oh , I could go on and on , and what I'm hearing is love yourself .

Speaker 1 39:45

Love the idea . Melissa , I have such an attitude of gratitude for you bringing me on here and just letting my little voice kind of carry over to people who may need it , because what you're doing here is such a good thing for folks and I really appreciate you , thank you .

Speaker 2 40:00

I appreciate you because you are an amazing professional and you are giving this . This is a gift , this is a gift .

Speaker 1 40:12

I have my moments .

Speaker 2 40:15

Okay , we're going to go ahead and bring it to a close again . Thank you so much for agreeing to do this not just once , but several times . Is there anything else you want to say before we go ?

Speaker 1 40:27

No , I want to tell my fans thank you , those four people who reached out . What up .

Speaker 2 40:33

You may have more after this . Thanks , melissa . All of our links and everything that we talked about today will be on today's show notes . Today's episode was produced and edited by me . The theme music is by Otis McDonald featuring Joni Inez . If you know someone who might enjoy these conversations , please share the podcast episodes as much and as often as you can . It's as simple as copying the link you use to access today's episode and sending it in a message or sharing it on social media .

Speaker 2 41:13

I'm a small , independent operation and your shares broaden our audience . Perhaps you or someone you know will be inspired to talk about teacher burnout . If you would like to get your voice on my podcast , contact me via the link on my webpage . Taughtbuzzsproutcom . Coach speaker and author Rashid Ogunlaro said it may take many voices for people to hear the same message . Join me in being one of the many voices rising up to get the message out around educator burnout .

Podcast Disclaimer and Reminder

Speaker 2 41:44

This is Melissa LaFleur . Thank you for listening to Taught the podcast . I have an important reminder slash disclaimer to share the views , thoughts and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency , organization , employer or company . Content provided on this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional advice . We encourage you to do your own research and consult with qualified professionals before making any decisions based on the information discussed in this or any other episode . Additionally , any opinions or statements made during the podcast are not intended to malign any religion , ethnic group , club , organization , company or individual Listener . Discretion is advised . Thank you for tuning in .