Beyond the Badge of Burnout: Leading by Example with Heather Vaughn

In this powerful episode, Heather Vaughn, EdS, Transformative Leader and Educator, shares her journey from early-career burnout to leadership grounded in humanity and wellness. During our conversation, Heather reveals both the dangerous reality of burnout culture and practical pathways to organizational change. We explore high-functioning depression, the cost of overachievement, and how small daily actions can shift entire school cultures. Listen now to learn concrete leadership practices that can dramatically impact educator retention, wellbeing, and ultimately student success.

Connect with Heather on LinkedIn

Learn More about High-Functioning Depression

Heather Vaughn, Ed.S. is currently the G/T Manager in the Gifted and Talented Department for Denver Public Schools. This role is part of the central team leadership that works collaboratively with DPS schools to support gifted and talented programming, identification services, professional development, and other needs.

With most of her career dedicated to curriculum development and teacher training, Ms. Vaughn has served as a district and school administrator, a district specialist, an educator in the classroom, and a college professor. Her work has been recognized by the National Association for Gifted Children and the Texas Association for Gifted and Talented for her contributions in creating and championing services for gifted students. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Burnout: An Organizational Problem
• 1:01 Heather's Journey Into Education
• 4:20 Badge of Honor Culture in Teaching
• 9:02 The Hidden Toll of High-Functioning Depression
• 14:40 Creating Safe Spaces for Teachers
• 19:13 Modeling Wellness as Leaders
• 23:35 The Five V's: Designing Your Happiness
• 31:07 Prioritizing Humanity in Education
• 35:25 Episode Wrap-Up and Resources

Transcript

Amy Schamberg: 0:06

Across the globe, educators are burned out. Research shows that chronic occupational stress harms teachers' health, drives high turnover and disrupts student learning. Yet we continue to respond as if it's an individual problem. What would happen if we stopped treating burnout like a personal feeling and started addressing the conditions that are burning educators out in the first place? Welcome to season two of Taught. I'm your host, Amy Schamberg, a school psychologist, board-certified health and wellness coach and Total Worker Health specialist. After 15 years in public education and coaching hundreds of burned-out professionals, one thing is clear you can't self-care your way out of systemic dysfunction. Burnout is an organizational problem that requires an organizational solution. This season on TAUGHT, we're shifting the focus from stories to strategies and rethinking what workplace wellness and education really means.

Amy Schamberg: 1:00

Welcome to TAUGHT. I'm Amy Schamberg, and today I am thrilled to be joined by my friend and colleague, Heather Vaughn, a nationally recognized educator, curriculum developer and the current gifted and talented manager at Denver Public Schools. Welcome, Heather, thank you. Excited you're here, glad to be here. Yes, yes, and Heather brings with her a wealth of experience, not just in gifted education, but also in cultivating teacher wellness and modeling leadership that really centers on human well-being. So in today's episode we'll talk about what it means to model wellness from the top down as a leader. We'll talk about the hidden toll of high-functioning burnout and depression, and what schools and all workplaces really can do to retain passionate employees without burning them out. So, heather, I'd love to start by just hearing a little bit about you and how you first found yourself in K-12 education, what drew you to the field, and if you have a personal experience with burnout that you'd be open to sharing.

Heather Vaughn: 2:03

Well, I mean, first off, I started in K-12 education because I've been teaching my dolls, my brother, my, everything that I could get my hands on, since I was a kid, begging my teachers to give me textbooks that they were going to throw out at the end of the year. Like I was passionate about education way before I really even needed to be education, way before I really even needed to be. But what has drawn me to particularly the field of looking at wellness in education is kind of my own experience, which at the time I would have never called burnout. So my first three years of K-12 teaching, I was teaching in a K-6 school. Years of K-12 teaching, I was teaching in a K-6 school and the model was you go at all cylinders, you give it your all. I was at a rural Title I school where I had the privilege of exposing students to many ideas and experiences that they'd never even encountered, and so, because of that, my passion had me working on the weekends to keep up with grading and lesson plans, staying after school to teach yoga to kids that didn't even know what yoga was, skipping lunch, you know, to work with students, teaching them manners, which I never thought would be something that I was teaching.

Heather Vaughn: 3:23

In that time period I had two different times where the ambulance was called because I passed out at the board teaching, because I skipped lunch, refused the ambulance services, which you know was to the dismay of my principal, because I was like I'm not paying for that.

Heather Vaughn: 3:42

But also I was like I've got stuff to do, like I don't have time for this.

Heather Vaughn: 3:46

And then my third year I went from walking pneumonia to full blown pneumonia because I kept coming to work, because that felt way easier than planning for a substitute, and so I literally, you know, went to the point where then I just couldn't come into work, had a short period hospitalized. You would think that those three years of these different instances would have said to me something is not right. But in my mind and what I saw around me was that this is how you do education well you fight the good fight, you get the badge of honor for being the person that comes in the earliest, stays the latest, et cetera, et cetera. And I think had I known what impact that was having on, a my life outside of work or, b my mental and physical well-being, I would have taken it a lot more serious. But because I was a young professional. I just assumed that that is how you do work and how you do the field of education, and if you're passionate, you do give your all, even if that means that you're unwell because of it.

Amy Schamberg: 4:59

Yeah, wow. Thank you for sharing that story and I think that's maybe the most traumatic story of the first three years in the profession and burnout I've ever heard oh my gosh, painting twice, having the ambulance called twice, and then pneumonia, to walking- pneumonia, to being hospitalized. I'm curious- when those instances occurred, what was your thought process like? What were you thinking? Was it more of an annoyance, something to deal with?

Heather Vaughn: 5:37

port of school nurse, I mean, she was just like hey, I'm hypoglycemic, and so that had to then become a conversation with my nurse that was not aware of that. But also, you know, I was like I am, I'm fine, I just need to eat a snack and I can keep going, it's fine. And I wanted to walk out. I wanted to drive home because they were telling me that I had to go home. It was probably my mom's greatest moment that she got to pick me up from school as a young teacher because they wouldn't let me drive home. She was like I never thought this would happen again. So pros and cons for us all, but, but you know, I just looked at it as what do I need to do to get this out of the way? Because I have things to do, my students stain me, I have responsibilities and I don't have time for my body not to behave when I need it to do things.

Amy Schamberg: 6:32

Yeah, and I think that when we are passionate about something, it is easy to kind of ignore those red flags. At what point were you kind of jolted out of that automatic? Just pull myself up by my bootstraps and just ignore my body's needs, Like what shifted for you A couple of different things that happened that weren't actually things that were happening to me, but things happening outside of me.

Heather Vaughn: 7:02

I know I had friends that were getting married and different life events that I was forced to make time for. And then I was having to figure out like how will I still do my work to the capacity that I and the caliber that I expect of myself? And so I was able to make some of those changes, but I wouldn't say that they were long term. They happened for many years as I was having to navigate those things, or while I was in grad school and kind of having to balance some of those things where I couldn't do everything at school anymore that I usually would prefer to do. But it didn't really hit me until a couple of years before the pandemic, and at that point I was working as a supervisor in a school district with some really high caliber teachers and one particular that reminded me so much of myself.

Heather Vaughn: 8:08

She was like a star year three, year four, and she did all these complex, thought provoking lessons. She was the cheerleader and the drama club sponsor, among other things that she took on. She got married while I was there, so she had all these big things. She'd always want to collaborate about particular student needs and then she just seemed to have everything together and you know, it never crossed my mind like she reminds me so much of me and you know, remember all those health issues you had. I didn't think anything of that. I left that district and the next year I was in a different role. But we stayed in touch because she liked to collaborate on different things, different high-quality projects and experiences she was planning for her student and then she resigned from her role one day out of nowhere and I talked to her that day and she told me that she was resigning and the next day she committed suicide.

Amy Schamberg: 9:08

Oh, my goodness.

Heather Vaughn: 9:12

And my regret is that I never saw it coming, because she was high, functioning just like I had been and exceeding all these expectations of her role at work. I didn't see it at that time, but she had all the same signs that I had as an early career teacher big moment for me in my life that I told myself. In order to honor her life and the work that I think is important, I vowed to become more intentional about helping teachers and others that I've worked with to grow into their agency of prioritizing their lives outside of work and recognizing the signs of when they need to take their wellness to the next level of seriousness. And, if you don't mind, I carry a poem that she wrote in eighth grade that they shared at her celebration of life. It's very short, but I would love to honor Katie in that way, absolutely. Or Katie in that way, absolutely.

Heather Vaughn: 10:22

So 75 summers, winters, springs, falls that's the short time you have to live, that's all. But as soon as we learn to run, skip, walk, play, think, eat, understand or even talk, we constantly find ourselves wanting more, like a greedy burglar robbing a store, never satisfied with what we've got, always adding more stuff to our life's pot. Maybe we should just turn down the hot flame, take a sip of life and slow down the game. Enjoy our life for as long as it lasts. Growing up is hard but goes way too fast. So take the remote and put it on slow, shut off the engine, take the oars and row and she wrote that as an eighth grader and I wish I had had the, because I kind of felt like I had this charge now when the pandemic hit.

Heather Vaughn: 11:44

That made me even more compassionate about the people that I was working with and what they were experiencing. And I think there's a lot of things that we hopefully are taking from that time as leaders to make sure that we're modeling those healthy work habits and boundaries for our employees so that they feel like there's the space to do that. And then it's important because it's not enough to say, take a meditation class or here's the discount on these different pieces to wellness. We actually have to live those things and it's I'm not great at it at all times, but I try really hard to model the things that I want other people to honor in their lives too.

Amy Schamberg: 12:31

Heather, thank you for sharing all of that and I'm so sorry for your loss and I'm so grateful that you shared that story because I think it just really highlights the significance of this right. Like you said, it wearing you know, the busyness as a badge of honor. And that is the culture and it can't continue. People are losing their lives. You know, I think it's really interesting to hear you describe how you saw yourself reflected in her, but until later, when the wisdom comes, you didn't realize that it was something to be concerned about, and I don't know that I would have either. Right, when you see someone working hard and you know that you've worked hard to get to where you are and you're like, yeah, they're doing that same thing.

Heather Vaughn: 13:20

Good for you to be able to share the wisdom that we've learned along the way of. I didn't do it right. My first three years, you know, I put in effort beyond effort, to the point of, you know, my health not being ideal, and what does that show? Students too, I think you know. Even as a teacher, it doesn't really matter if you have a leadership role as in a title. You are a leader regardless. In education, where there's people watching you, whether that's new teachers, whether that's students, whether that's the colleague down the hall People are watching, and so when we create a culture of modeling those best practices, then we make that space.

Amy Schamberg: 14:21

Yeah, and I think what you said was so important, because it's one thing for a leader to talk about boundaries or to talk about taking care of yourself and relaxing this weekend, but if you're getting emails from your leader on Saturday afternoon or whatnot and those actions don't match their words, then that sends a message too. So one thing that I've always, always respected about you, Heather, is that you walk the talk and you really do a good job in modeling that and you do a beautiful job of modeling vulnerability and like yeah, this is hard for me too.

Heather Vaughn: 15:03

Yeah, I mean, I think leaders have to model that. We have to demonstrate our vulnerability, even despite, like I call myself a recovering perfectionist. I don't always like to share my struggles because that's not how I was wired originally and I've had to break those trends for myself to build trust, to build openness with my staff, with other colleagues, in order to be able to really showcase that it's a safe space for anybody to be able to do that.

Amy Schamberg: 15:43

Yeah, what do you think are the factors that are fueling this need to overperform and overachieve? Right, I mean, teachers especially have this personality type of being perfectionists, overachievers, people pleasers that care deeply because nobody goes into the field of education because they want to be a millionaire. But what are those social or systemic or cultural factors that are just kind of contributing to this?

Heather Vaughn: 16:20

to this. Well, I mean, I think, first and foremost, we are in the United States, a country that's born and bred on working hard and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps whether that really is applicable or not, because obviously everybody has a different playing field they started on so that is not always going to work in your favor. But I think, you know, having that belief in the society's belief of individualism, of it's up to you to be successful and you have to showcase how you're important and take care of yourself, and there's less of a focus on community that I think in years past was more of the way that we get success is by working together versus like I need to show how I am important and how I belong and how I am needed, etc. Etc. So I think, foundationally those pieces.

Heather Vaughn: 17:17

But then in education, I think the next layer is, like we talked about that badge of honor for being the early one, the late one, the one that always raises your hand to help with xyz, how you can be the most highest you know functioning and the busiest professional that delivers high quality outcomes in the classroom and beyond. If you're able to showcase all of those, then you're winning at education and I think because we have these beliefs that still need to be untangled, if you will, teachers are coming into the field overwhelmed right away because the standards are so high and the pressure is so high, because we know like we're trying to prepare kids for an ever-changing global society. How do you even keep up with that?

Amy Schamberg: 18:11

Do you see a difference as well with GT schools and teachers, versus if you were, like in your Title I school that you first started out in, or just, you know, a standard K-6 school? What do you notice are some of the unique challenges that are facing GT educators especially?

Heather Vaughn: 18:31

GT educators, particularly, are facing the extremes of can I be one step ahead of the smartest kid in my class that may have a higher IQ than I have? Right, I mean, I think you know trying to stay ahead of students that have these capabilities is just as hard as the teacher that's trying to move a student that's at a reading level you know two years below and trying to get them on track. But I think there's a study out of the University of Missouri from 2018. So even prior. Again, I like to reinforce this was happening before the pandemic, but they found that 93% of elementary school teachers were experiencing high levels of stress and they found that if you had high teacher stress levels, that was associated with poor student results, which includes slower grades and frequent behavior problems. When you put all of that compounded, that's already telling you.

Heather Vaughn: 19:40

You know how much pressure teachers are feeling, and yet I don't know that we're making the strides that we need to to make sure that teachers are feeling supported, not to mention getting into administrators and the other roles within the school that are also facing those same issues.

Heather Vaughn: 20:05

But teachers are at the front lines. When you see all these different studies between 2010 and 2019, not to mention all the ones that came out after the pandemic studying the same thing, that are just reinforcing that, that we've got to look at how we can do education differently in a way that makes teachers feel like they can say I need help, I am, I need support, I need a break. Whatever that is, we've got to make it a safe space. I mean the teacher that I talked about earlier. You know she never said to me other than help me come up with ideas to better serve my students. There was never a help me figure out how to manage taking care of myself and doing this work. But that was also never something that we put on the table as a district, of making sure that teachers knew that this was a possibility to ask for support in that manner.

Amy Schamberg: 21:18

Right, I think that it's so interesting you brought up the study from 2018 that said over 90% of teachers were feeling burnt out. And you've seen my workshops before and I always start with this one slide that there's an article chopped out from the New York Times that the headline states teacher burnout is a growing hazard and if you look closely, that article was printed in 1979. You look closely, that article was printed in 1979. And then I found a meta-analysis looking at all of the other research articles printed about teacher burnout that came out in 1983. So this is nothing new.

Amy Schamberg: 21:54

Like you said, this is not because of COVID. This has been going on for decades and it's a moving target because when we're looking at the causes, things are changing, because you know it was cell phones today, but you know, five years ago it was something else. And I think you said something so important, which is we have to create safe spaces and normalize asking for help and normalize saying I'm not okay, this is too much. I'm not okay, this is too much. That's got to be it right, because the reasons, the behavior, the technology, the student needs, all of these other pieces.

Heather Vaughn: 22:33

They're not going away, not anytime soon, but we have to show each other that it's okay to not be a superhero and do it all so a lot of the work from Dr Judith Joseph about high functioning depression kind of hits on that, and I think we don't always, as a society, remember that teachers are humans too, like. They have needs, they have dreams, they have lives outside of their work, even though that is a love and a passion. Outside of their work, even though that is a love and a passion, they have other things and we haven't created the space for them to reclaim what Dr Joseph says a human being versus a human doing, and we get the badges of honor for being the human doing and we haven't made sure that people feel like just being human being is enough. And I don't have to do everything, I don't have to say yes to everything in order to have worth in the world and in my workplace too.

Amy Schamberg: 23:41

Yes, and I would love to hear from you some specific strategies. So say, somebody is listening to this and they are nodding their head and they're agreeing and they're wondering well, how do I model boundaries and taking care of myself, like, what do I actually do For someone who doesn't know where to start? What would you suggest?

Heather Vaughn: 24:00

Yeah, I mean, I think number one for leaders is demonstrating vulnerability, and that could be just admitting to. You know, I was running late today. I spilled coffee on me, like you know real life things. But I'm trying to get back on track to make this day still good, because sometimes people just need to see that you're not perfect all the time and that it's okay. And I think the other, the other part of being a leader, especially in a supervisor role, would be spreading more gratitude and positivity, and that means, like in the forms of prioritizing, you know, recognition and positive feedback to teachers versus criticism and judgment, can help really like swing that positive tone. And also by doing that, you're creating a strengths-based environment which should trickle down to your teachers and how they work with their students. We want students to hear that positive, asset-based feedback and teachers should feel that way too, because ultimately, if our teachers are feeling neglected, our students are going to be neglected, because that's just the nature of how this is going to trickle down.

Amy Schamberg: 25:21

Well, I just wanted to comment too. So I'm hearing we have this negativity bias or we just want to focus on what's going too. So I'm hearing we have this negativity bias or we just want to focus on what's going wrong. So you're saying, if you are intentional about focusing on what's going right and calling that out and naming that for staff, then that becomes internalized by them and they start doing that with their students as well.

Heather Vaughn: 25:42

Absolutely. I mean, one of the things and I learned it from another administrator that I do is when I go on, you know, just walking through classrooms, informally, not for any particular reason, I keep post-it notes with me. I write down one or two things that I see that are great and I make sure they're specific, one or two things that I see that that are great and I make sure they're specific, and I leave that posted on their desk when I leave. And you know I have teachers that tell me they collect those. But but I learned that from another administrator that said, when my teachers are feeling like full from positivity and encouragement, then they they are able to do more for students, and that's what I want and I, you know I took that and ran with it because I do.

Heather Vaughn: 26:30

I see the difference. Like I'm not going to point out what they haven't been able to grow in yet, because we're all growing. Instead, I'm going to focus on what's going well and I think when you couple that with being vulnerable at times when it's appropriate, that really makes you feel more relatable and they're going to come to you when they actually are struggling with something, more likely than if you always look like everything's perfect, everything's together, or you're always criticizing what they're not, you know, attaining quite yet.

Amy Schamberg: 27:03

Yeah, I love those because they're simple and doable. It's not this huge overhaul that you have to like change an entire system, though I would imagine that that is a consequence of changing these small pieces. Right, the culture shifts slowly but surely. These small pieces, right, the culture shifts slowly but surely. But yeah, you can stand up at your meeting and say, yeah, I had a rough morning today, you know, I don't know. The kids woke up on the wrong side of the bed, the dog drug a bunch of mud through the house. And here I am and here we go and you model that humanity. And that's what you were saying. Right, we are humans first, we are educators second, but we are humans first. So let's just all get on the same page with that, absolutely, yeah, okay, what else? What other strategies do you have?

Heather Vaughn: 27:52

I think the other one, that I've really started working on with myself again. This is Dr Judith Joseph, but she says we have to backwards design the science of our own happiness and determine what points of joy will give us boosts throughout the day, the week, the month. And she says points of joy rather than, like you know, when people say I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I do X, y, z. So these five points she calls the five V's. The first one is validation, which is just accepting and acknowledging your feelings. Again, as a recovering perfectionist, there was a long time when I pushed down feelings like we don't have time for that feeling Go away. As a fellow school psychologist, you know like what you resist persists. And so just validating your feelings by saying like, oh, I'm overwhelmed with all of this, why is that? And kind of exploring that it doesn't have to be a long thing and you don't have to do all five of these. But that's the first one, validation. The second is venting, having a chance to talk out those feelings, sing out those feelings, write out those feelings. Third is values thinking about what are things in your life that give you purpose, make you feel good, whether that's faith, whether that's family, whether that's connection, whatever those values are that give you joy, making sure you incorporate those. So validation, venting values, then vitals, which we won't go into this, but that's nutrition, movement, how you honor your relationships, how much time you spend on technology or your phone, making sure you're taking care of those vitals.

Heather Vaughn: 29:40

And then the last one is vision. How do you plan for joy? How do you incorporate these joy? How do you incorporate these five V's and again, not all five at once into your future plans? But do you make plans to, you know, take a yoga class if that gives you joy. Do you make plans to be with the relationships, the people that are really important to you, in addition to all the work stuff? But taking those five V's is kind of a nice way of like. If I got myself a couple points today with some of those, great. If I didn't, I still can do it again tomorrow. Instead of having some long term of like, I'll be happy when I can collect points every day with you, know these different areas, and I don't have to hit all five every day. Maybe I only hit one, but that's kind of the goal.

Amy Schamberg: 30:30

I love that so much. It sounds to me like having a menu of options, right. So it's like I am stressed out, I'm overwhelmed today. I don't even know what to do. So I'm going to start by validating my feelings by naming the way that I feel. Right now.

Amy Schamberg: 30:46

I feel really overwhelmed and yes, you're right, I mean, that is one of those like step one SEL pieces that we do with students when we're teaching them to kind of understand how to regulate their emotions. Before you can regulate your emotion, you need to know what you're feeling. You need to know where in your body are you feeling that tension? And just taking 10 seconds to check in, wow, I've got a lot of tension in my jaw today. Or, you know, my stomach is in knots. I wonder why that can be just kind of liberating, just to be able to check in with yourself because you're so busy, there's so much to do.

Amy Schamberg: 31:21

Another thing that you said I wanted to comment on quickly was values. I've had this you're the third person today who has talked about values alignment and it's so important because when we start to feel that friction, it's often a sign that we are not in alignment with our values Absolutely. And I have a question for you. So for people who you know, values is kind of like a do we know what that actually means, right? Not everyone can name their top five values. So for people who are maybe not certain what their values are, what are some activities or exercises that you would recommend?

Heather Vaughn: 31:58

There are lots of different programs where you can like take a quiz and learn about what your top traits are that lend themselves into values.

Heather Vaughn: 32:09

But I think also exploring like if you chunk out your time, if you look at three days of your week or a whole week, if you want to be really overzealous and you look at where you spend your time Do I take time to walk my dog or be out in nature every day or most every day that shows that you value being out in nature.

Heather Vaughn: 32:34

If I make sure like for me, I have all these once a week phone calls with different people that I don't live close to, but I value my relationship with them, you know then that shows that I'm putting time and effort into that. And even when you analyze that and go, you know something that's really important to me is missing. That also tells you, hey, I need to schedule more time to acknowledge this value. If everything on your schedule as an educator has to do with your teaching career, yeah, we're heading towards burnout and so we better start planning some other pieces that you care about. But yeah, I mean, I think that's an easy one where you can go oh, look at these trends, look at what I do value because I'm making time for it, or, like I said, seeing what's missing, that actually really is important to you.

Amy Schamberg: 33:31

That reminds me of an activity I have done in the past with my coaching clients, which is to write out what would your ideal day look like, or what would your ideal week look like, and so kind of going off what you were saying. If you were to sketch out a hypothetical weekly schedule for your ideal week and then kind of examine it and look for themes, what do you notice that's really standing out? Is it time with others? Is it alone time? Is it exercising? And I think that could be another clue as to what you're valuing and then compare that ideal to what your actual weeks are looking like.

Heather Vaughn: 34:11

Absolutely and I totally agree because I think you know obviously you can take these different quizzes and things, but really you can backwards design your life. You can look at what your life currently looks like. Does it match what you want to prioritize, or do you need to kind of reverse engineer it and make it match what is actually important to you? And I think it is a good exercise to do exactly what you're saying, like what's your ideal and what's real life. And is there a compromise in there somewhere that we can get to a, you know, a happy medium between the two?

Amy Schamberg: 34:52

And how can a busy leader make time to do this activity?

Heather Vaughn: 34:56

Yeah, I think you have to schedule yourself. I mean, I have learned over the years that I already live by a calendar. Sometimes that means I have to calendar in things like journaling, things like going to my yoga class, and I think a busy leader can do that. I like to start the day by, you know, looking through what's upcoming and I like to make my list of what are the top three things, and that doesn't mean tasks, you know. If I have I have a friend that's having a surgery coming up one of my top three tasks for that day will be checking in on that person, in addition to whatever else is is on the docket for the day.

Heather Vaughn: 35:42

That I decide is the most important. But it's like your to do list will always be ongoing and long, long. So if you can pick two or three that are really important to you and maybe one's personal, one's work based, then you're going to more than likely actually get get through those two. And if you get through some other things on your to do list, you know, pat yourself on the back, but even if not, then you've prioritized the things that matter to you most.

Amy Schamberg: 36:14

Yeah, and making it achievable, because, like you said, the days will always be full of to-do tasks and they'll never be completely checked off, but by prioritizing the top one or two that are most important, you can end the day with a sense of achievement and accomplishment no matter what else happened. Exactly, yeah.

Heather Vaughn: 36:52

Any other strategies or, you know, because if, if I'm able to really prioritize myself as a human being and not just as a educator, leader, whatever other title you want to give me then I can have that same compassion for my colleagues and hopefully that also makes them feel like they can do that.

Heather Vaughn: 37:17

You know, I've had teachers come to me and say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I forgot about this meeting or I didn't get the thing done by the deadline that you set, and unless it's a trend, it's not even a conversation for me. I'll say you're a human and sometimes we just don't get it all done right away and we'll be okay. Being able to do that as a leader setting boundaries on when you send emails and being the model of what you're hoping for for your staff and colleagues is the number one thing. And I think, if anything, that's the biggest thing that I've learned from my experiences is that you have to lead with what you really want for yourself and for all the people that are around you. Because if all the people, all the adults in the room, are doing those healthy boundaries, that means our students are going to witness that and hopefully not have to be taught to do those things and instead incorporate those, because they've observed that and they're mimicking that, which would be fantastic.

Amy Schamberg: 38:33

Oh, my gosh, heather, thank you so much for sharing all of this insight and experience and wisdom and your stories. I think that you've really given us this sense, that this reminder that wellness teacher wellness, educator wellness, leadership wellness it's not a luxury, it's not a thing that maybe we'll get to. It's a responsibility that can be like, achieved every single day by doing something small. It doesn't have to be one more thing on the to-do list, right? It doesn't have to be one more thing to add to a to-do list. It can just be a part of the way we do everything.

Heather Vaughn: 39:12

And I think that kind of talking starting the meeting by the first five minutes, of having everybody share either something that's making them laugh or making them cry, that is a way for us to say you're a human, before we're gonna get into our agenda and all of the things. Whatever that piece is to make us connected is what makes us want to keep working together, is the humanness. It's not the how productive you are and how amazing you are at spreadsheets. It's do I feel connected to you and do I feel like I can do the work with you, even when it's hard.

Amy Schamberg: 39:53

Right and do I feel a sense of belonging because we are working towards something together and I care about you and you care about me, and we're not just here to get the work done, we're here for some other really important reasons too. Absolutely yeah. Oh, heather, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Heather Vaughn: 40:13

It was so lovely, and thanks for allowing me to share all the things that you know I've experienced and hopefully will be helpful to others.

Amy Schamberg: 40:22

Absolutely, and we'll be sure to link the article that you referenced and any other resources that you think would be helpful for our listeners. We'll be sure to link those in the show notes. And where can people find you if they'd like to connect with you further?

Heather Vaughn: 40:37

Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. That's primarily where I play and connect with others online.

Amy Schamberg: 40:44

Yes, and you're very good about returning messages and you're pretty active on there, I think, so we'll put your LinkedIn in the show notes as well, and if you have any questions, be sure to reach out. And thanks so much, heather. We'll see you next time. All right, thanks so much. Thanks so much for listening to TALK. If you found today's episode valuable, please consider sharing it with a colleague or leaving a review, and remember to hit follow so you never miss an episode. For additional resources to support educator well-being and organizational change, visit my website at amyshanbergcom. Backslash talk and if you'd like to keep today's conversation going, let's connect on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear from you. Finally, don't forget to check the show notes for links to today's guests and everything they're up to. See you next time.